a103: Re: a77: Dorcé replies to Chamberlain (fwd)

[Bob Corbett <corbetre@webster.edu>]

From: LAKAT47@aol.com

In a message dated 12/20/2001 9:13:35 AM Pacific Standard Time, Greg 
Chamberlain <GregChamberlain@compuserve.com>writes:

<< Since I joined this group in around 1995, I've often
 posted very "vehement" criticism of "minority class
 Haitians" and until quite recently given Aristide the
 benefit of the doubt. >>
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I came to the group in late 1997, or early 1998 so I didn't know you then or 
your posts.  But I can't recall when you used to give Aristide the benefit of 
the doubt......it must have been before my time.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
<<.and  I suspect that you know it and may have some reason 
> to sell your spin. >>

<>
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I meant "sell" as in trying to influence others, not that you were in the 
employ of someone who made you write a certain way.  I don't know why you 
insist on being so critical of Aristide and his party.  Disappointment?  Did 
you expect more and then get angry when you felt that you backed the wrong 
guy or something?  Why are you taking it so personally.  I do not know your 
story.  I don't know what nationality you are.  I don't know anything about 
you except that you are in Paris.....I think, and you are a journalist.....I 
think.  You have lots of opinions about Haiti, as do I.  We seldom see things 
the same way.  We seem to push each other's buttons.  But I do not know who 
employs you, if anyone.  
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
<<Can Cathy explain why it was necessary to attack 
radio stations and their journalists all over the country 
because (as the "demonstrators" clearly stated) they were 
not broadcasting slavish support for the regime, because 
they were giving voice to those deploring the corruption and 
inaction of the government (along with the voices of some
couldn't-care-less politicians)?>>
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I am guessing here as I do not have access to those  people in Haiti who did 
attack journalists in response to the coup attempt.  I would imagine they 
attacked the radio stations because they are the main means of getting 
information out and they have come to know them as agents of the opposition 
and they may have leapt to the conclusion that the opposition attempted a 
coup and would use the radio stations to do more harm.  It wasn't right, 
Greg......but what are they to do with no one on their side?  What are their 
options?  The last coup went very badly for them.  They can't live through 
another.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
<<"Let democracy work," you say.  Well... yes.  Nothing much to do with 
Amerikkky here.>>
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I don't even know what you mean here.  Democracy actually has very little to 
do with Amerikkky......it is an illusion here.  And US support of it is an 
illusion in Haiti too.  The US has no interest at all (except in a PR sense) 
in democracy in Haiti.  They are way more comfortable with owning a puppet, 
no matter how non-democratic he is in reality.  Aristide is no puppet......so 
he is getting the "treatment".
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
<< You're falling into a famous trap to let opportunistic politicians in the 
rest of the 
world use such things to justify their own misdeeds.>>
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
You mistake my position if you think that.  I do not support misdeeds against 
the people of Haiti by ANYONE.  I do not think Aristide has surrounded 
himself with angels.  That is unfortunate.  I wish everyone in Lavalas was 
spotless and had the same vision and goals that he does.  But that is not the 
case.  And many of them have hurt his cause.  I think he has enemies without 
and within.  I don't see him as an angel but he is not a demon either.  I 
think with the right support, he could make a huge difference in Haiti.  You 
believe what you hear.  That is your right.  There is no proof of his 
duplicity and until there is, I continue to think he is still on the path.  
And he DOES have a mandate from the people of Haiti. And three more years.  
Let's hope he gets a chance to do SOMETHING in the time left in his term.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
<<but of course a government (and its foreign apologists) will always 
try to get away with claiming it is _entirely_ under the ferrule of "outside 
forces." >>
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I knew what was happening before anyone had to tell me.  It is as plain as 
the nose on your face.  I didn't hear that excuse, I KNEW it already.  I live 
here......it's in my face every day.  It boggles my mind that most Americans 
are clueless about what we do in the world.  Witnessing the Republicans'  8 
year long war with Clinton was painful and elucidating for me......what they 
tried to do to Aristide (what they are still attempting to do) is nothing 
more than the same.  It's very effective because people believe what they 
hear over and over again.  Keep repeating a lie and it becomes the truth.  I 
was in Haiti in the 80s and I talked to people from our government who were 
doing some very questionable things.  It didn't make any sense to me then, 
but as I look back, it sure does.  
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
<<Ben Dupuy's familiar line about the July 28 and Dec 17 
attacks being "provocations to try to spark civil war and invite 
yet another foreign military invasion," is a bit too kneejerk to 
be very credible. >>
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
It's as credible as anything anyone else has speculated.....
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
<<Ben has been trying to sell this DR-invasion 
line for years.  He might prove to be right,>>
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Indeed he may.......
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<< They said pro-Aristide organizers told
them Sunday night, hours before the attack, that something
was happening and that they should mobilize.">>

<<... was interesting.  Were these sources lying?  Or do we say
it was just the good ol' CIA talking?>>
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I don't know.....but it could be either one of those things or the 
truth......do any of us know at this time?  Do you doubt that the CIA has 
operated covertly in Haiti?  Or that it still has some kind of interest there 
(whatever that could be)?  It is one thing to see the CIA under your bed (I 
SWEAR I do!!) but it's another to deny their involvement at all.  Both are 
extreme and probably not true.....probably......

Kathy Dorce~