15533: Dorce: Re: 15456: RAber: Re: 15451: Dorce Re: 15288: marasa (fwd)

[Bob Corbett <corbetre@webster.edu>]

From: LAKAT47@aol.com

In a message dated 5/6/03 6:43:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, P&M Raber
<raber@valkyrie.net> writes:

<< This is what being president is all about.  You take credit for the good
 stuff and deductions for the bad stuff.  You assume responsibility for the
 historical and current ills of a society and move forward by healing the
 wounds and uniting all the factions.  >>
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
In what reality?  Do you honestly think that's what presidents do?  I think
it goes more like you take credit for any good thing you can and deny
responsibility or deflect blame for anything bad that happens.  Regardless,
you can't mean that the actions of individuals are the responsibility of one
man.  This is what they mean about the cult of personality.  It's impossible
for any one man to control the actions of each and every person in his
country.  Not the good, nor the bad.  If he is influential, he may use his
office as a bully pulpit to try to get people to change bad behavior, but it
is the individual who is responsible for his own actions.  And what being the
president is all about is being in a position to advance his agendas,
whatever they may be, such as helping the poor have access to a better life
or starting wars to benefit a few oil magnates.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Raber writes:The Haitian elite is part of Haitian society whether Mr.
Aristide likes it or not.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Or whether I like it or not, and I don't.  They may be part of Haitian
society but they are the problem and not any part of the solution.  And shame
on them for that.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Raber writes:Mr. Aristide is married into the elite and most of his friends
are
part of the elite.  His children are not only bourgois but they are also
Americans (at least until they make their choice at age 18). The educated
middle and upper classes desire to participate in the development of their
country but are being sidelined while those pushing them aside exhibit the
very behaviors (or worse) they pretend to abhor
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Oh you know I have to answer this!  Thank goodness those poor rich folks who
are being persecuted and not given their entitlements have someone to
champion them!  Now which is it, Raber?  Is Aristide against the elites and
middle class or is he one of them?  You can't have it both ways.  Is he fer
em or agin em?  (for those not into colloquial English, "is he for them or
against them?")   If he meets with them and negotiates with them he is a
traitor to the poor people he professes to be helping.  If he speaks out
against the injustice with which the rich have treated the poor, he is only
the president of the lower class and dismisses the best ones.  Face it, the
man can't win with you.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Raber writes:Who are the people's "own outsiders"? And isn't that a
contradiction to be your own outsider?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Yes it is, but I never like to miss an opportunity to stick it to the
arrogant elite.  They never did right by the people of Haiti so I think it's
only fair that they get a taste of their own medicine.  The disdain and
disregard with which the elite hold the poor is not returned by those poor,
as they are better people than their "betters" but I'm not better.  So I hold
the elites with that same disdain and disregard.  And with more joy than is
proper I'm sure.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Dorce finishes : " The army is dead, long live the people of Haiti!"
Raber writes: Amen to that one but the people come in an assortment of skin
color, income levels, an social classes.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
If you want to be considered "the people of Haiti" you must prove your
humanity...I submit that the few at the top have not shown a bit of it. I
like to say that if Haiti was full of the upper classes and the lower ones
did not exist, it would be as interesting as Martinique.  (how offensive is
that!)  Nice looking but no soul.  No Culture, except that which is borrowed
from France.  And no spirit.  Blah....you wouldn't have a group of
distinguished people reading a great deal of passionate posts every day and
giving so much of their time and effort to help this amazing people.  Those
people are what make Haiti different from any other island in the Caribbean.
Not the elites.  Let them do the right thing.....remember some did the right
thing and got killed for their trouble?  I'd like to see some sacrifice and
selflessness from those people you feel you must defend.  But you know what?
I rarely do.

Kathy Dorce~