16518: Dorce: Re: 16478: Fouche: Re: 16465: Dorce: Re: 16369: Kathleen: (fwd)

[Bob Corbett <corbetre@webster.edu>]

From: LAKAT47@aol.com

In a message dated 8/21/03 7:01:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Rachel Fouché"
<vze4xd3t@verizon.net> writes:

<< Before one actually engages a discussion on economic class in Haiti, one
has
 to realize that the standard Marxist rhetoric cannot be engaged in Haiti's
 political arena.  I don't quite understand Ms. Dorce use of the term
 "defensiveness" regarding prior comments made about the status of the middle
 class in Haiti -- given the role of the middle class has had globally in
 developing state economies and stabilizing democratic institutions,
 inclusivity is a key goal of those who are of -- or who hope to aspire to --
 middle-class status. >>
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Ms. Fouche, you have tarred my speech with the epithet "Marxist rhetoric",  I
suppose, in order to negate it.  That usually works if you want to dismiss an
idea, to say someone is promoting Communism or Socialism, doesn't it.  So,
someone is Communist if they believe the situation in Haiti with the poor in
such abject and killing misery should be fixed and there are those in Haiti who
have done nothing to fix it?  And I'd be happy to tell you what I mean by
"defensiveness" on the part of some on this list when the middle class is not
exempted from accountability in Haiti's woes.  I wouldn't mind if you cited
examples of middle class contributions to the welfare of all of Haiti (not just their
own personal progress), and there are many examples, I know.  But not to take
any responsibility for the class hatred that is there and still flourishing
with each child born into a privileged home and to deny that class hatred is
taught to these children as a matter of course is just perpetuating the problem.
 It's not a little problem either.  It's not something that will go away with
a simple adjustment in behavior.  It will likely take generations to change
the way people see each other in Haiti.  Whenever I hold up the mirror to the
faces of the elite and middle class, they rarely try to see if there is a shred
of truth in it for them.  They usually tell me I am causing great harm,
dividing the people of Haiti, as though my observations are the cause of the
problem.  Sometimes they use the "Marxist" card and most times I am dismissed as
someone who doesn't know what I'm talking about.  But there are some middle class
Haitians on this list who have written me and told me that my posts are
accurate.  These people are the kind of Haitians needed to change this destructive
pattern that is keeping Haiti right where it is.  Rachel, if you were not
defensive about this, you would be able to admit that there is truth to what I
say.  But to refuse to let the idea in, and analyze the validity of it for
yourself is defensive and not productive.  Oh, and a word about aspiring to be
middle class; there is no problem aspiring to be middle class but I suspect most
aspire to be elite.  That's why you get to share the blame of non-action with
the elite and get none of their benefits.  Bummer.  Well, there are the
servants...
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
>> But because the middle class has been a
target of both the political/economic elite and the lower classes, they have
had to build their lives elsewhere<<
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I'd like to hear how the middle class has been a target of the lower classes
to the point of having to leave Haiti.  I believe if the middle class Haitian
decides to leave Haiti, 9 times out of 10 it's because they know they have a
better chance of improving their life in the US, not because of danger to their
person.  Hey we got electricity 24/7.........well mostly.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
>>The ongoing opinion constantly
brayed on this list is that Haiti is in the midst of a "class war" which
needs to be "won" by the poor and that true equality can only come in some
type of mass "dignity in poverty" where nice, foreign NGOs can live out
savior fantasies on the new versions of the "noble savage."<<
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Rachel, there is no class war, if there were, you wouldn't be alive.  There
are more of "them" than there are of "you"...and the army is no more.  There is
a class problem, of that, nobody can deny.  And of course in the Haitian,
time-honored way, you place it in the category of win/lose.  Someone MUST lose
for it to be any good.  This is not what I have ever said or even hinted at.
This should be a win/win situation.  Bringing the lower classes up will enlarge
the middle class, bring balance to the economy of Haiti and allow progress at
last.  And the noble savage remark is just insulting.  If you are wondering, I
do not have delusions of saving Haiti.  I do think Haitians should do it
themselves.  I'm waiting...

To be honest, I don't know how you are going to fix this problem of division
within Haiti.  It will take generations of not teaching the children to judge
others by the class they are in.  It is human nature to want to be superior to
others, I guess.  But it is possible to teach children to be fair, honest and
non-judgemental  and to see traits such as jealousy and greed as undesirable
ones.  Before anyone yells at me for generalizing about Haitians, let me say
we could use a huge dose of that here in this country too!

Kathy Dorce~