17643: Lemieux: NPR Interview from Los Angelas re Marineau and Bastien (fwd)

[Bob Corbett <corbetre@webster.edu>]

From: JD Lemieux <lxhaiti@yahoo.com>

>
> Interview: Jean-Claude Martineau and Marleine Bastien
> discuss Haiti's
> bicentennial By: TONY COX . Tavis Smiley (NPR) ,
> 01/01/2004 ; ( AN
> 6XN200401010901 )


>
>
>
> 9:00-10:00 AM , From NPR in Los Angeles, I'm Tony Cox in
> for Tavis
> Smiley.
>
> On today's program, regular commentator Michael Eric
> Dyson offers a list
> of potential New Year's resolutions for the
> African-American community.
> Tech guru Omar Wasow shares his top picks for the best
> gadgets of 2003.
> And we'll get a second taste of neo-soul flavor served up
> by the
> French-African duo Les Nubians.
>
> But, first, 200 years ago today, Haiti became the first
> black republic
> in the world. It was also the site of the first
> successful slave revolt.
> The revolution of slaves of African descent against
> France on the island
> of what was then called Saint-Dominigue would have a
> tremendous ripple
> effect on the rest of the world. In fact, those former
> slaves devastated
> the French army so thoroughly that Napoleon was forced to
> abandon his
> control of Louisiana to the United States. Therefore,
> without the
> Haitian revolution, the United States might look very
> different.
>
> Today, on the bicentennial anniversary of Haitian
> independence, we look
> back on that country's extraordinary history. Here to
> give us an
> overview is Haitian writer Jean-Claude Martineau. He
> joins us by phone
> from Port-au-Prince. And Marleine Bastien who is director
> of Haitian
> Women of Miami, Incorporated. She joins us from member
> station WLRN in
> Miami.
>
> Welcome.
>
> Marleine, let's start with you. How important is Haiti's
> independence to
> the world community in general and to the United States
> in particular?
>
> Ms. MARLEINE BASTIEN (Director, Haitian Women of Miami,
> Incorporated):
> Haiti's independence was extremely important. When you
> consider that
> `slaves' were taken from Africa--I say slaves, I put it
> in quotation
> because these were men and women who were living free in
> African and
> taken to the island of Haiti and then put into slavery.
> Even on the
> boat, these men and women were starting the resistance to
> be free
> because they knew by the way that they were caught that
> they were going
> to be put into slavery. And then without any resources,
> any arms
> whatsoever, they organized to defeat the most powerful
> and well-funded
> army at the time, the Napoleon army.
>
> Before that revolution, blacks, slaves were considered
> animals, some
> less than animals. They did not have the right to
> self-determination.
> They were like a thing to be disposed of at the master's
> will, and for
> the first time in the history of the world, black slaves
> were considered
> as human beings with a conscience, with souls, with the
> intelligence to
> choose their own destiny.
>
> COX: What did this mean to the United States?
>
> Ms. BASTIEN: So the idea of black men and women
> organizing to free
> themselves from their masters was not seen in a good
> light here, not
> only by the US but by the colonizers and slave owners of
> the world.
>
> COX: Let me as Jean-Claude: Talk a little bit about
> Haiti, if you will,
> when it was called Saint-Dominigue and its unique value
> to France at
> that time.
>
> Mr. JEAN-CLAUDE MARTINEAU (Haitian Writer): Well, in
> spite of the
> smallness of our territory, the colony of Saint-Dominigue
> was the best,
> the richest colony France ever had. And I could go even
> further. It's
> the best colony any country ever had. And it brought to
> France close to
> one-third of its budget every year. It was a very, very
> successful
> colony. It was a very rich colony. And the commerce from
> the colony to
> France was the best commerce any colonizer ever had.
>
> COX: Let me follow up to say that many historians,
> Jean-Claude, suggest
> that Haiti paid a heavy price for winning its
> independence, not to
> mention paying a hundred and fifty million francs to
> France, it was also
> ostracized to a point where it became extremely
> vulnerable to internal
> conflict. Talk about that for a bit if you will.
>
> Mr. MARTINEAU: Well, this is what we are paying for that
> independence.
> We have been paying for that independence for 200 years.
> You can imagine
> that the world was a slave colony. If we look at this
> continent in
> Haiti, we said the one continent in the United States'
> just three: North
> America, Central America and South America. In Haiti, we
> considered the
> continent a whole. Imagine that Europeans came, they
> emptied the
> continent almost completely and replaced the population
> by a slave
> population. When one part of that continent rebelled and
> proclaim
> independence, you can imagine the commotion that went
> through the whole
> slave wealth of that time. In the United States, for
> instance, they felt
> that anybody coming from Saint-Dominigue at the time of
> the revolution,
> even the Frenchmen, even the white men, because they
> could say what had
> happened here, the slave rebelled, and in 11 years, the
> master military
> had to beat not only the French army, the Napoleon army,
> but also Spain
> and England.
>
> COX: Let me bring Marleine back in for just a moment to
> talk about an
> important figure in that revolution, Bookman. Who was he
> and why is he
> the legend that he is today?
>
> Ms. BASTIEN: Bookman was an organizer from Jamaica.
> Bookman succeeded to
> bring the slaves together in an unforgettable ceremony,
> got the slaves
> at the time to organize, and with the use of the language
> of Creole and
> of Voodoo religion, make them believe that they could
> succeed and beat
> the French. Remember, at the time, France had the most
> powerful army.
> And in order for him to get the slaves to even make the
> decision to
> organize and fight, it took him to use his power and his
> organization
> skills to make them believe in themselves, to make them
> believe that
> they could organize and with the protection of the gods
> from Africa that
> they could succeed and defeat the most powerful army in
> the world.
>
> COX: There's no talking about the history of the
> revolution in Haiti
> without mentioning also the name of Toussaint
> L'Ouverture, if I'm saying
> it correctly. Talk also, Marleine, if you will, a little
> bit about him
> and how he became such a legendary figure and how he in
> fact was later
> undermined himself.
>
> Ms. BASTIEN: Toussaint was considered a slave beyond the
> age of 40 until
> he bought his own freedom and became a free man and also
> a military
> leader in the French colony. His idea was that the slaves
> in
> Saint-Dominigue ought to be free. And in order for them
> to be free, they
> had also to organize, so his ideas really mimicked those
> of Bookman. But
> Toussaint L'Ouverture came from West Africa, a country of
> Dahomey, which
> is now known as Benin, which was a French colony until
> 1960. He came
> from a family of king, from the Aradas kingdom, and he
> was well-known
> for his intelligence, his magnetism and the power of the
> words and the
> power to mobilize people. And today even after he died in
> Fort-de-Joux
> it was 1803, Haitians around the world, in the
> (unintelligible) and
> around the world, and then not only Haitians, but people
> around the
> world admire his courage and determination.
>
> COX: We've got a little under a minute left, and I'd like
> you and
> Jean-Claude both respond to the issue of cooperation
> among blacks and
> mulattos during the revolution and how much the racial
> differences got
> in the way of Haiti's progress over the years.
>
> Marleine, you first.
>
> Ms. BASTIEN: The black slaves and the mulattos saw that
> it was necessary
> to unite and organize if they were to free themselves
> from bondage. They
> had this unity, but after 1804, I believe they never
> really sat down to
> determine how they were going to make Haiti survive.
>
> COX: Well, does that mean, Jean-Claude that that
> continues to this day?
>
> Mr. MARTINEAU: Yes, not as openly and adamantly as it was
> before, but it
> continues. And for 200 years we have had in Haiti a
> system similar to
> the apartheid system in South Africa. But you see what we
> are
> celebrating this year is the unity, to prove to the whole
> world and to
> ourselves that when we unite we win.
>
> It was not easy for the mulattos and the blacks to get
> together. The
> mulattos were fighting to become as free as the French,
> but they never
> associated with the blacks in their demands because that
> would
> jeopardize their position. But when the mulatto realized
> that they were
> going to be enslaved also if the French expeditionary
> forces had
> succeeded, they unite with the blacks. And you have to
> understand that
> they had military skills. Most of their leaders had
> fought in the
> American Independence War. So they were very instrumental
> in, you know,
> the battle for independence here. And together they won
> independence.
> After that the contradictions between these two classes
> remained and so
> far we have not really solved it because we have never
> debated it to
> know exactly what we are, what are the interests and how
> we can solve
> the problem.
>
> COX: Jean-Claude Martineau is a writer living in
> Port-au-Prince and
> Marleine Bastien is executive director of Haitian Women
> of Miami,
> Incorporated. Thank you both for being with us and happy
> bicentennial.
>
> Mr. MARTINEAU: OK, thank you very much.
>
> Ms. BASTIEN: Thank you. So long, Jean-Claude.
>
> Mr. MARTINEAU: So long.
>
> COX: Just ahead, we'll talk more about Haiti's
> bicentennial with a look
> at the current political turmoil facing that nation.
>
> It's 19 minutes past the hour.
>
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