22903: Justin: Leslie, Cassey, etc. (fwd)

[Bob Corbett <corbetre@webster.edu>]

From: Justin <justins@alacrityisp.net>

For Leslie:

- It isn't just relatives who have given us this version of events.

- You are acting like my version of events amounts to some kind of
indictment of all the rebels.  In fact, I single out the guy who pulled the
trigger, Luc Fabien.  From what we have learned, Cassey and his friend were
not supposed to be killed, and Fabien's superiors later apologized to the
family.  While I obviously have made blanket condemnations of the rebels and
everything they stand for, this particular incident was about the criminal
actions of one particular guy.

- From what I can tell, I know a lot more about the "other side" than you
do.  Leslie, just because someone was nice to you in person doesn't mean
they're nice people.  Have you studied the public record on these guys?  I
have relatives who were members of the Ku Klux Klan.  If you met them you
would probably think they're the nicest people in the world.  They're very
friendly and personable.  But you don't learn everything there is to learn
about someone just from meeting with them--or even living with them for a
few weeks.

- For all your talk about understanding both sides, you don't seem to
practice it very much.  You gobble up propaganda against Lavalas like its
candy, yet when you are faced with information that contradicts your belief
in what saints the "rebels" are, you get defensive and refuse to listen.
>From what I can tell, you haven't put much effort

- No, I did not see the bodies.  Which brings up an interesting point.
Let's assume for the moment that you witnessed the same event I have been
writing about, in which Cassey and his friend died.  Why did the rebels
clean up the pools of blood that were left after they shot them?  Why did
the rebels take the bodies of the boys and toss them over a ravine a few
miles down the road?  If your rebel friends were simply defending themselves
from these evil, violent teenage boys as you claim, then why did they put so
much effort in to HIDING what they had just done?  If they only kill people
because they absolutely have to, and then shed tears about it afterwards,
then why couldn't they at least leave the bodies with the families so they
could receive a proper burial?

- Even if you were there (which I'm still very doubtful of), that doesn't
mean you still were able to get the entire picture.  From what you
described, you and the rebels were driving along when all of the sudden, you
started hearing gun shots.  Did you see where they were coming from?  Did
you see WHO was doing them?  Did you see the rebels shoot the boys, and what
the circumstances of the shooting were?  Did you really SEE everything?
Somehow I doubt it.  I bet you heard the gunshots, then there was a moment
of hysteria, and then AFTER the hysteria had died down, some of your rebel
friends told you their version of what happened.  Despite being there, I
still bet that most of your information about the incident comes from the
testimony of your rebel friends, am I right?

- Cassey was not a "chimere" (that word is a slur with racist and classist
connotations by the way).  He grew up in Brooklyn.  The only time he ever
went to Haiti was when he was helping his mother run her business.  He
didn't care about politics.  I have talked to members of his family and they
seem apolitical to me.  I tried several times to bait his sister in to
revealing her political views, but she didn't seem like she had any.  She
just wanted someone to do something about her brother's death.  What
possible motive could these boys have had for shooting at a caravan of
heavily armed rebels?  My version of events is entirely self-consistent and
believable.  Your version of events defies common sense.

- Again, assuming we are talking about the same event, were you aware that a
group of rebels had attempted to raid the town's agricultural center before
you showed up there, and the townspeople fended them off, killing two rebels
in the process?  Even if we assume that you're right and someone else opened
fire on them, you can't really blame them!  The reputation of these guys
precedes them, and people were expecting them to come back and carry out
revenge killings.  I sure as hell wouldn't have been greeting them with
flowers.

- Assumuing the circumstances of her death are as he describes them, then
no, Chamblain's wife shouldn't have been killed.  Just like Reagan shouldn't
have killed Qadaffi's daughter.  But that doesn't mean you are supposed to
go and HAVE CHAMPAGNE with Muammar Qadaffi!  You have to assume that she
knew she was putting herself in danger when she married a cold-blooded
killer though.  It was her risk to take.  I think it's interesting that you
are more interested in talking about the death of Chamblain's wife rather
than all the hundreds, or even thousands of deaths that Chamblain is
directly or indirectly responsible for.  Chamblain and FRAPH have killed
more people than "pro-Aristide" people were ever even ACCUSED of killing.
So much for "listening to both sides."

- How many actual Haitians did you talk to over there?  Do you speak
anything other than English?  Most of the sources you cite seem to be
religious people, aid workers, and other foreigners.

- Of course people have been killed by the police and by "pro-Aristide"
people (whoever that refers to).  And I also understand the CONTEXT of those
killings.  You talk about the police a lot.  Why do you suppose the police
force has so many problems?  Did the U.S. disarm all the forces they were
supposed to disarm after 1994?  Did the U.S. provide for adequate training
and professionalization of the Haitian police force, as they were supposed
to?  What role did the CIA play in recruiting and/or corrupting members of
the police force and so-called "pro-Aristide" people?  Dany Toussaint was
one of the often-maligned "pro-Aristide" people several years ago.  He had a
well-armed following and was known for flouting the law and probably
orchestrating the murder of Jean Dominique.  Now he has switched sides, and
Guy Philippe, the "freedom fighter" who supposedly cares so much about the
future of Haiti, is now Dany Toussaint's buddy.  If Philippe were so
concerned about bringing justice to Haiti then why is he so anxious to align
himself with one of the men whom Aristide detractors spent so many years
denouncing as a thug?  And speaking of Jean Dominique, the guys who shot him
were in prison, but have since been set free by the rebels.  Think about
that one, Leslie.  Why do you suppose your friends emptied out essentially
every PRISON in the country?

- Yes, I pretended to agree with you when you first contacted me.  How else
could I be sure that you would share information with me?  Your email made
it obvious that you shared a deep affection for the people who killed
Cassey.  If I spoke to you then like I did now, I doubt you would have been
as eager to tell me what happened.  If I told you what I really believed,
you would have responded in a manner that was defensive.  You would not have
been as frank with me.  You would have dressed up your story.  I am above
all concerned about telling the truth, and I wanted to make sure what I got
from you was your honest recollection of the events, not a defensive tirade
against me.  I'm sorry if you saw this tactic as dishonest.