23928: (Lenoir) reply to Kondrat on participatory education

[Bob Corbett <corbetre@webster.edu>]

From: Jean Lenoir <tijeanlenoir@yahoo.com>


Now we^re talking.

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If only the original post were as thoughtful as Kondrat^s!



If there is a cause- and-effect connection between authoritarian education
and
repressive governments ^ I for one would (sincerely) like to learn more
about
it. On the surface, it makes sense. I guess it would follow, then, that a
Freirian participatory education, as Kondrat says, ^may be an important
path
toward bringing about reform in (Haitian) society as a whole.^ That would
certainly be good news: set a good example in the way we treat and educate
kids, and they will be less likely to be brutal and authoritarian as
adults.
Sensible enough theory.

By the way, I wouldn^t conclude (as you have) that Engle's program
necessarily
does this. By his own very frank admission, he arrived ready to preach ^
and
continues to talk down and pontificate here. As is so common, it was the
Haitians who taught him, not the other way around. Here is what he and
Werlin said;  ^From the moment we decided to make listening to the
teachers an
essential part of our approach, we discovered something we should've known
all
along. Those teachers were working in very particular circumstances that
they
understood far better than we did. If we wanted to help them improve their
work
in the classroom, we would have to start from where they were--not from
what
our theories told us.^



Back on the topic. Forgive me for asking two obvious questions: how is
Freirian
participatory education working in the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />US; and are we sure it is
well-suited in today^s Haiti?

American private schools (particularly Jesuits) are more authoritarian
than
their public school counterparts, yet generally turn out better educated
graduates ^ who nonetheless have respect for authority, order, and the
rule of
law. No matter the theory, I would hesitate to hire American consultants
to
help me import whatever it is they think they know about education. By
objective measure (math, science and reading scores), the United States
ranks
rather low in the world community, 40th I think. I would look more to
Norway
and a dozen others whose students run circles around American kids.



Also, before throwing the baby out with the bath water, I would also look
more
carefully (and more respectfully) at Haiti. I certainly won^t defend the
Haitian school system, but I notice once again, Engle and his program
ignore
their owns pronouncements: ^Appreciative Inquiry is based on ^ (the
assumption). that energy for positive change is created when organizations
engage continually in remembering and analyzing  circumstances when they
were
at their best rather than focusing on problems and how they can be
solved.^



In that spirit, it might be worthwhile to dwell on what Haiti does well -
compare Haitian baccalaureates with the American situation where people
graduate from high school unable to read or write, and teachers cower
behind
their desks ^ fearful of lawsuits from permissive parents or violence from
their well-armed etudiants who exhibit discipline and respect "American
style"
by periodically shooting up their school ^ and each other.