30542: Karshan (news) Canada on Haiti and the Debt (fwd)

[Bob Corbett <corbetre@webster.edu>]

From: MKarshan@aol.com

Embassy, Canada's Foreign Policy Newsweekly

Embassy, June 6th, 2007
NEWS STORY

UN Envoy Asks Canada to Write Off Haiti's Debt
By Lee  Berthiaume
When Canada pledged $520 million in international assistance over  the next
five years to Haiti last year, the Caribbean country became the  second-largest
recipient of Canadian aid after only Afghanistan.

And yet while Canada's mission in Afghanistan has been capturing headlines
across the country and partisan politicking in the House of Commons for years,
most Canadians likely don't know what has been happening in Haiti.

Last week, the head of the United Nations Stabilization Mission in Haiti,  or
MINUSTAH, visited Montreal and Ottawa to talk with Canadian government
officials, police services, deputy ministers and the Governor General about the
mission and Canada's role in it.

Edmond Mulet of Guatemala was appointed the UN Special Representative in
Haiti and head of MINUSTAH in May 2006 for a one-year term, which was recently
renewed. He sat down with Embassy last week to talk about the situation in
Haiti  and Canada's involvement. The following is an edited transcript of that
conversation:


What is the purpose of your visit to Canada at this time?


The purpose of my visit here is first of all to thank the Canadian
government and Canadian people for their commitment to international 
peacekeeping
operations and their support of United Nations' multilateralism.  And, of 
course,
Canadian support and engagement in Haiti has been really  extraordinary.

Now we are trying to identify, with all the different departments and
agencies, what's next, because we have to prepare for the future.


Overall, how would you describe the situation in Haiti now and how it
compares to a year ago?

I think the situation is really bad. It's really horrible and terrible. But
if you compare the picture of Haiti today with one of six months ago or a year
 ago, there's been enormous positive evolution. When the mission first
arrived in  Haiti three years ago, the country was almost on the verge of a 
civil
war. We  stabilized the country, and then it was very important to have in 
place
a  legitimate government, a product of democratic elections, and Canada was
very  much engaged in the financing and technically supporting this process.
Then the  issue was security and that is what we are dealing with right now.
It's still  very fragile and we have to build those capacities of the 
authorities
in order  for them to take over. And what's next?


I think what's a priority for Haiti right now and its international  partners
is to establish a minimum level of rule of law in Haiti that will get  enough
guarantees for the Haitian diaspora to go back or invest in its own  country;
for international investors and international development to go there,  to
create jobs, to generate income. For tourism also. There is enormous  potential
there. Also, Haiti is so close to the largest consumer market in the  world,
the United States. Of course, we have now to continue providing  humanitarian
assistance and development assistance also to build local  capacities.

The good thing we have in Haiti, which we probably don't have in many other
peacekeeping operations around the world, is partners in government who are
people of very high quality, morally and intellectually. People who are very
honest, very committed. So that is a guarantee for us in the international
community. That is also a guarantee for the voters in Haiti, to have people of
that quality in government. The situation is still very fragile, very
complicated. I think it's going to take some time. We are also helping the 
government
in securing borders and customs issues. And now that we've completed  the
electoral cycle–we had six elections last year–we're working with [the 
elected
officials]. Canada is also working with them to really decentralize a
country, to build local capacities.

One of the problems we have in Haiti is that 83 per cent of Haitians who
have some kind of upper or mid-level education, they left. They're not in Haiti
anymore. They sought their future somewhere else like Montreal or New York.
This  is affecting not only the government, but it's also affecting the private
sector. So we hope to build local capacities there with different projects.
Our  military force, 70 per cent of our troops come from Latin America. This is
the  first time that Latin America is so connected in a peacekeeping mission,
where  the majority of the forces are Latin American. And also the political
leadership  comes from Latin America. This is to show there is a continental,
hemispheric  solidarity effort. This is something where Latin Americans are
trying to help  one of ours. And Canada is the second largest contributor of
funds to Haiti  after the United States. So it is a good partnership. And it is
thanks to this  participation, this commitment, this interest from countries
like Canada, and  especially like Canada, that we can make a difference now.


A Poverty Reduction Strategy has been in the works for some time and  many
donor countries are waiting for its completion before moving ahead with 
certain
projects and to get an idea of the country's direction. What is the  status
of the PRS?

It's still being developed. The minister of finance, the minister of
planning and international partners are still developing that. The president 
would
like it to be a 25-year vision for the country, with all sorts of  benchmarks,
because it's going to take years and years before we are going to  see any
difference. What's also important, and something like Canada can assist  in, is
the writing off of Haiti's foreign debt. Some other countries in the  world ha
ve done it, and I think that will help to unload that kind of  responsibility
from the Haitian state and the Haitian government, if we can  write off the
foreign debt and start over again. Especially since we have such a  responsible
and decent government in place and we can count on them being  effective.


So Canada hasn't written off the foreign debt?

It's through the World Bank and the [International Development Bank] and
other institutions.


Why hasn't Canada done so?

I think they're developing that right now but I think they want are some
kinds of conditions being implemented by Haiti on budget issues, and they want
to see that Haiti is really moving on some aspects of the fight against
corruption and things like that in order to make these decisions. But the 
president
is moving forward and they're getting there.



Why has it taken the Poverty Reduction Strategy so long to be developed?

It has changed. All the priorities have changed somehow. We had this
international conference in Port-au-Prince in Haiti in July, and then we had a
follow up conference in Madrid, and another conference two months ago in
Washington hosted by the World Bank. And everything was such a mess in Haiti. 
There
was absolutely nothing. So to create a new everything, it takes time. And  as I
mentioned before, when you don't have civil servants, or professionals or
local skills because everyone is gone; as I said, this is affecting not only 
the
government and their ability to deliver and their capacity to work, but also
the  private sector, this could be one of the reasons why it is taking so
long. And  also, this idea of having a long-term vision for Haiti, that is also
part of it.


But it is coming along, and the international community has been  responsible
and they have been delivering and providing funds. But now the  problem is
the state itself doesn't have the capacity to spend that cash. The  president
was telling me the other day that his coffers are full, they can't  absorb all
this the way they need to do that. So we have to build those  capacities.


Without the PRS in place, have there been delays in the implementation  of
programs and moving on some areas of progress?

No, I think Haiti is moving ahead anyways on many different issues, for
example, in all sorts of infrastructure projects. They have this [Social
Appeasement Program] that puts in place this urgent programming in order for 
the
people to feel that peace and democracy have their dividends. And that is being
done. At the macro-economic level, Haiti has been enormously successful in this
 past year. All the agreements with the World Bank and the [International
Monetary Fund] have lowered the inflation rate. It's really fantastic. It was
almost 30 per cent two years ago, and now it's below four or five per cent.
That  shows the financial and fiscal responsibility they have.

During the interim government, I believe it was 63 per cent of the budget
was earmarked as discretionary funds. They could change from one item to 
another
 or do whatever they wanted. So what President [René] Préval did was reduce
those  discretionary funds, the percentage from 63 to five per cent. So this
shows and  proves how they are very serious about this and responsible in their
approach.


Canada seems to be really focusing on Haiti's security–

I think that security is absolutely fundamental, essential, in order to
develop all the other things because if you have insecurity, you will not have
development, you will not have investment, you will not have anything else. So
that is the basic thing right now.


There has been some criticism that Canadian police officers are not the  best
suited for this mission because they are working in a different environment
here than in Haiti. Has this been an issue?

No. We don't get policemen just from Canada. We also get them from many
African countries and they are also doing a great job. But I think the
experience, the skills, the professionalism that first-world countries like 
Canada can
bring to a country like Haiti, I think that's very good. And also to  raise
the standards of training and all the specialties within the [Haitian  National
Police], because many of the policemen coming from Africa probably  don't have
the skills to train in criminal investigation or judicial  investigation or
record management or management, which are very much in need.  And the approach
also to the issue of human rights and how the police have to  perform, the
vision from Canadian policemen, for example, and the training he  can give on
that, I think, are very positive things. I think the Canadian UNPOL  contingent
is excellent, it's very, very good. So I don't see that. And I think  they
combine very well.


You have different capacities coming from Canada and other countries.  The
United States, what they send is Haitians who moved to the U.S. and became
policemen and now they're moving back to Haiti as policemen. The advantage, of
course, is the language because they speak French and Creole. We would like to
have Latin American police with us, but since they don't speak French, that is
a  problem. With troops that is not a problem because they are not working
directly  with the population. But policemen we do need them to speak good
French because  we need them working with them directly. That's why we need
Canadian policemen,  not only because of the good work they do and their
professionalism, but because  of their language skills also.


I have heard that the penitentiary system is in bad shape as well.

We are victims of our own success. They are completely overcrowded. They
even have to take turns now to sit or to lie down or to sleep because there is
not enough room. So they take turns. They sleep for four hours and then are
woken up so the others can sleep. It's pretty horrible. And the sanitary
conditions, you have cells that were made for four people and you have 40 or 50 
in
them. And this poses not only security problems, but also on human rights
issue as well. So we are hoping some countries will be interested in putting a
remedy to this.

One of the problems we have in Haiti is most of the inmates are in
preventive detention mode. They have probably never seen a judge, there's no 
formal
accusation, there's no file, there's nothing. Some of them probably stole  a
chicken and probably the penalty for that would be five days in jail and 
they've
been in jail two or three years. So now the minister of justice has
appointed some itinerant judges and they are going to go to all the different
detention areas and find out who's there and who shouldn't be there, and to 
make
some space for the real criminals. It's really bad. But now that we have
received our corrections officers, especially from Canada, we're working with 
the
local authorities to find solutions. They will be training and analyzing the
situation and preparing working programs to resolve the problem. Through CIDA
and UNDP and MINUSTAH, we have identified three small prisons in different
cities of the country and will be probably involved in refurbishing and
refitting.


How many of the problems are because of the state of the judiciary, not  only
in terms of skill and ability, but also the issue of impunity?

To build this minimum level of rule of law that we would like to help the
Haitians build in order to develop the economic side and everything else, we
have three pillars. There is penitentiary reform, the police reform, and 
justice
 reform. And there the government has adopted the texts of three laws that
have  been sent to parliament. And now this is in the hands of parliament, so 
we
are  hoping they will be approving these three laws very soon. They will
guarantee  judiciary's independence, professionalization, and salaries. The way
they are  paid, it's really ridiculous. So I think we need those three laws.


How will you get rid of corruption that has become systemic?

It's going to take time. It's going to take political will from the
government and the president. The good news is on May 18, in his official 
speech,
President Préval, at the national palace in front of the all the crowds
announced his priority would be fighting corruption. He said corruption in the
palace, corruption in parliament, corruption in the police, corruption in the
private sector, corruption everywhere. So he's really committed to that, and
Canada and MINUSTAH are working together on the penal chain. The idea would be 
to
have, as soon as possible, some important cases, visible cases, and I think
that would help to send a right signal to the people involved in drug
trafficking, money laundering. When that seeps into the political scene in
parliament, and mayors, to really extract that afterwards is extremely 
difficult. I
think we're still on time in Haiti to address that.


Do you have to work towards security first or the corruption or can you  do
both at the same time?

I think we have to prioritize the security issue because all these
neighbourhoods in Port-au-Prince, like Cité Soleil, were holding Haiti 
hostage.  The
image of Haiti was the image of Cité Soleil. What was going on only in Cité
Soleil was perceived as going on in the entire country, even though most of the
country is peaceful and stable. So it was very important to bring a solution
to  the problem in Cité Soleil to improve the image of the entire country. And
that  was pure criminality: extortion, kidnappings, robbing, stealing,
assaulting, all  sorts of things, but not too much linked to corruption. Of 
course if
someone was  arrested or sent to jail, he would be free because the judge or
the policeman  was on the take there. But it was not real activity linked to
corruption or the  product of corruption. That's why it was so difficult to
deal with the security  issues first. And now we are moving into the corruption
issue. We have to get  better all the time.


Canada has committed itself to 2011. From what I understand, Canada is  the
longest committed of all donor countries. The U.S. is committed for two  years?

Yes. It may be a budgetary thing. And sometimes they have things like the
U.S. Department of Defence, they came along and gave $20 million in addition to
what was committed before by the U.S., but only for Cité Soleil. And
sometimes  you have things like that coming along. But the European Union has a
long-term  commitment to 2013 because they work on seven-year cycles.


There was a Senate Committee report that raised concerns that Latin  American
countries are only committing for a short time. Is that a concern, and  is it
possible to get long-term commitments out of these countries?

> From Latin America, you don't have money coming into Haiti. It's really
first-world countries–the U.S., Canada, the European Union and Japan. Brazil 
has
allocated some funds there, but for very specific programs, Argentina also.
What  we have from Latin America is the political commitment, the will to
contribute  with troops, which is absolutely essential. So like I said before, 
there
is a  partnership between troop-contributing countries and first-world
countries that  contribute in different ways. We don't have one single Canadian
soldier, one  U.S. soldier, one French soldier. So no one can accuse in Haiti 
of
having  hegemonic or imperialistic or geopolitical agendas in Haiti. This is
more like  hemispheric solidarity effort with no hidden agenda there. Canada is
there  openly and in good faith to help someone.


Over the past few years we've seen an increase in tensions between some
hemispheric governments, like the U.S. and Venezuela. Is there concern that 
Haiti
could be used by one side or the other for geopolitical gain, or as a  pawn?

I think President Préval is very independent in that sense and he knows he
could be used by one side or the other. He wants to keep his political
distances, but he knows also that his country is in dire need of any help, any
assistance, any money, any support he can get, so he'll get it from anyone. He
doesn't want to be involved in political disputes or squabbling here or there,
and he's made it very clear to everybody that Haiti is not a pawn and will not
play the political game of being on one side or the other. This is a very
special moment in Haiti's history and if Cuba or Venezuela or any other country
want to help Haiti, which they are in many ways, that's more than welcome.
And  if the U.S. or any other country want to help, they are also very, very
welcome.  So I think he does keep a balance there in a very effective way 
without
 committing his country aligning it to anyone against anything.


There seems to be this very polarized split in the Haitian diaspora,
including the diaspora in Montreal. Some support the new government and what 
the  UN
is doing, others see it as an occupation. How do you bring the two sides
together or address these issues?

It less and less of a problem. Préval, when he was a candidate, announced
that if he were elected he would form a national unity government. The first
thing he did when he was elected was call these five or six most important
political parties and then you see all these ministers, they represent 
different
parties in his cabinet in government right now. So he's made a big effort to
reach out to all different sectors of society: private sector, civil society,
political parties. So I see that for the first time in 20 years, the
presidential election in Haiti last year did not create a polarization of the
political spectrum. It brought unity, political stability, which is what Haiti
needs right now.

You have politically motivated groups that were very active in the streets
of Port-au-Prince at the beginning of Préval's presidency, but now you don't
see  them anymore. You used to see 5,000 or 6,000 people marching. Now those
same  groups call for the same issue, you'll see maybe 50 people. I think the
population in Haiti, in Haiti, they are fed up with these past 20 years of
confrontation. They want to leave that behind. And I see in all the political
parties, and the private sector and civil society, this will to work together
and to acknowledge this is an exceptional time in Haiti's history and
exceptional behaviour is expected from everybody.

So you do still have some people with those kinds of opinions about the
presence of the United Nations in Haiti. Some of them are ideologically or
politically motivated, which I respect. But most of the ones who are calling 
for
the withdrawal of the UN forces in Haiti, us leaving, those are the ones who 
are
 right now benefiting right now from the impunity, the corruption, the
trafficking, the contraband, the state of disorder. It is not in their 
interests
that Haiti establishes the rule of law because it affects their own interests.
So you see all sorts of different movements from different people who have
their  own opinions on the international presence there. But it is because it 
is
going  to affect them eventually.


How do you see Canada's involvement in Haiti evolving, or how would you  like
to see it change?

I think Canada's commitment to Haiti is a strong one, is an important one.
On the political side, Canada has been very engaged with other countries and at
 the UN and Security Council level to keep Haiti on the radar screen.
Financially  and economically, Canada has done a lot for Haiti. So if not more, 
I
would like  for this current commitment to be kept at the levels we have right
now.

Of course, if there is an increase that would be fantastic. If they were to
commit more funds to Haiti, that would be fantastic. But I know you have other
 priorities and budget constraints. But what we would not like to see is a
diminishing interest on the political side nor a reduction in funding for the
projects. I think we're on the right path. I think all the ingredients are
there  to make this a successful story. The country is stable, there is 
political
 stability with a legitimate government. We are facing the problems of
insecurity, we are trying to build institutions. I think this is the time to
redouble our efforts to make these achievements permanent in Haiti.

You know the international community has had to intervene eight in Haiti
eight times in the last 20 years. In and out, in and out. So we would like this
to be the last time the international community has to intervene in Haiti. So
it  is important that we stay there for some time and support this and when we
leave  and that we leave behind permanent, solid, sustainable institutions.


How long will this take?

I've been asked this question many, many times and it reminds me of U.S.
president Abraham Lincoln's answer were he was asked how long a man's legs
should be, and he said long enough for his feet to reach the floor.

It depends very much on the local capacity of the Haitians to build their
own capacities and absorb this international assistance and help. I don't think
we can talk about time. I think we have to talk about benchmarks and
achieving  certain realizations and benchmarks on the route. But it's not an 
easy
task,  it's going to take time. Any early withdrawal will mean that we will 
have
to go  back into Haiti and it will be even more expensive and more complicated
in many  ways. So I think now that we are there and have done so much for that
country,  the UN and bilateral donors like Canada, now is the moment to carry
on and  continue making what we have achieved permanent and solid.


You mentioned Canada is working on the international stage to make sure
Haiti remains on the world's radar, yet here in Canada, most people don't 
realize
how heavily involved we are in the country. Why do you think that is?

Is it because things are going well? Is it because we don't have bad news
coming out of Haiti regarding Canadian interests? Because in Afghanistan, 
you've
 had these deaths and terrible things happen, in Haiti it's different. The
public  attention is drawn to where there are problems and things are
complicated. But I  think on certain levels there is an interest in what's 
going on in
Haiti. There  are commitments from the leadership in Canada. Maybe the media
should come along  to Haiti and report back on the good work that Canada is
doing over there. I  don't know if it's bad or good. Canadians should be 
informed
I think because  it's taxpayer money that's going to Haiti and it's an
important amount of money  going to Haiti. After Afghanistan it's your second 
largest
contribution. So I  think the media has a role to play there, as well as
elected officials to report  to their own constituencies about this.

_lee@embassymag.ca_ (mailto:lee@embassymag.ca)



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