9424: FW: 9401: Re: 9398: dictionary (fwd)

[Bob Corbett <corbetre@webster.edu>]

From: albert valdman <valdman@indiana.edu>

Haitian Creole is blessed with a large number of BILINGUAL 
dictionaries but two factors limit their eventual usefulness and 
effectiveness:

1. There is no extensive MONOLINGUAL dictionary, such as the 
Webster's, Longman's for English or the Petit Larousse or Petit 
Robert for French;

2. The market is too small to interest a commercial publisher to make 
the large investment that a top notch Creole-English and English-Creole 
dictionary would require.

So all existing dictionaries have their limitations and the job 
remains to be done.

I am grateful to Carrol Coates for his compliment concerning the 
dictionaries produced by teams of the Indiana University Creole 
Institute:  "a beautiful job of lexicography".  In this connection, 
we are puzzled by some of the other comments he has distributed to 
the Corbett list concerning our products.  These products strive to 
meet primarily scholarly criteria--we are not a commercial publisher. 
Nor are I assume the authors of the other top dictionaries available, 
notably the Freeman-Laguerre work.

If the members of the Corbett list interested in Creole dictionaries 
will indulge me, I will set forth some basic lexicographic principles.

Briefly, there are two criteria in evaluating a dictionary: the 
breadth of the nomenclature, that is the number of entries and 
subentries it contains; the nature of the microstructure, that is, 
the information provided about each entry and subentry. In a bilingual 
dictionary this is mainly to what degree the microstructure guides 
the learner in finding out the full meaning of the entry or how to 
use it.  A third, but not insignificant criterion is the physical 
nature of the product: paperback or hardbound, size of type, clarity 
of format, etc.

Another important point about bilingual dictionary are the functions 
it is intended to serve and the intended users.  In French the two 
basic functions are called "version"  and "thème".  For English users 
(as versus Haitians) who are learning HC or wish to work with it a 
HC (Haitian Creole)-English dictionary aims to enable them to 
understand texts, both written and oral--version.  In that case, the 
larger the nomenclature, the better, for the context of the text will 
help the reader figure out the meaning.  Contextual examples (the 
main part of the microstructure) are helpful. They also serve to 
validate the existence of the entry or subentry.  An English-Creole 
dictionary is destined to help the user construct sentences in 
HC--thème.  In that case, contextual examples and a rich set of 
subentries are essential, for they serve as models for the 
constuction and accurate and appropriate sentences in which the 
eqivalents of the English entry occur.

With this in mind, I turn to the substance of the comments from our 
distinguished colleague.

Our  Learner's Dictionary of Haitian CReole is exactly that: it is 
an Engish learning tool that cannot in any way be compared to 
HC-English dictionaries that serve a different goal.  It does not 
pretend to match the nomenclature (number of entries) of the 1981 
Haitian Creole-English-French Dictionary (HCEF) nor, certainly, that 
of the much more inclusive and recent Freeman-Laguerre Haitian 
English Dictionary.

The perceptive user of the Fequiere Vilsaint ANGLE/KREYOL//ENGLISH KREYOL
DICTIONARY will have observed that it is essentially based on the
index of the 1981 HCEF dictionary and, as Vilsaint has graciously 
acknowledged, the near totality of the examples he provided are taken 
from the HCEF. Note that in the HCEF we are careful to credit our 
source for each example we have not constructed ourselves but extracted 
from the Alain Bentolila et al's Ti Diksyonnè Kreyòl-Fransè with the
abbreviation (TiD).

The reader will no doubt ask why did we not also use our examples 
from the HCEF in the Learner's Dictionary. It is because these 
examples have a different function in a "thème" dictionary, and we 
felt that it was necessary in most cases to construct different 
examples.

We are puzzled by Coates' claim that "Valdman told me he excluded
plants and animals [and I don't know what else] because he didn't
think they would be very useful for the non-Haitian writing Kreyol!!!)".
Surely his memory must have failed him or he misunderstood what I
Valdman confided to him.  I am surprised that as eminent a scholar 
as Carrol Coates would quote an alleged oral statement and 
punctuate it by !!!.  That this statement is a patent 
misinterpretation, to say the least, can be easily seen by 
consulting the Learner's Dictionary in which one finds, for example, 
DONKEY bourik, as well as detailed treatment of some of the senses
of CHICKEN for some animals, or CORN or ORANGE for some plants.

What was probably said to the distinguished specialist of Haitian
literature was that in order to keep the work within manageable size,
the number of entries had to be reduced.  Imagine trying to provide
something comparable in size to the English-French section of 
the Oxford-Hachette Dictionary!  A count of entries--and, importantly, 
subentries--will assuredly show that the Learner's Dictionary
matches any English-HC dictionary available that contains 
equivalents supported by ORIGINAL contextual examples rather 
than simple equivalents.

The fact that Carrol Coastes' copy of the HCEF has fallen apart 
testifies to his extensive use of it!  Alas, disintegration is the 
fate of most of the available dictionaries of HC whose cost the 
authors have striven to reduce by eschewing hard binding. 
Fortunately, support form Indiana University made it possible for us 
to distribute the Learners' Dictionary as a durable product.  For our 
next HC dictionary we will strive aslo to improve the quality of the 
format, see our most recent lexicographic product, A Dictionary of 
Louisiana Creole (Indiana University Press).


>>X-Authentication-Warning: whitman.webster.edu: majordom set sender
>>to owner-haiti@lists.webster.edu using -f
>>Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:12:45 -0600 (CST)
>>From: Bob Corbett <corbetre@webster.edu>
>>To: Haiti mailing list <haiti@lists.webster.edu>
>>Subject: 9401:  Re: 9398:  dictionary (fwd)
>>Sender: owner-haiti@lists.webster.edu
>>
>>
>>From: "Carrol F. Coates" <ccoates@mail.binghamton.edu>
>>   Casey, I'll risk sending this to the list since there may be some
>>other people who don't know of the availability of dictionaries.
>>
>>Unfortunately, there is no dictionary (to my knowledge) that has as
>>extensive coverage in English to Kreyol as the Freeman/Laguerre for
Kreyol
>>(Haitian) to English.  Fequiere Vilsaint published a small DIKSYONE
>>ANGLE/KREYOL//ENGLISH KREYOL DICTIONARY in 1991 (he may well have
revised
>>and pub. new editions).  Albert Valdman's English-Kreyol dict. was
>>published recently (3-4 years ago?) by the University of Indiana Press
and
>>is probably still available (I can't find my copy this instant to give
an
>>exact ref.).  It is a beautiful job of lexicography and production, but
not
>>very useful, to my mind, because it had such a limited number of entries
>>(Valdman told me he excluded plants and animals [and I don't know what
>>else] because he didn't think they would be very useful for the
non-Haitian
>>writing Kreyol!!!)  Valdman's original mimeographed dictionary in two
>>volumes was possibly more extensive, but it was reproduced on poor paper
>>that was ready to crumble so I did not pay the high price.
>>
>>This won't help presently, but B. Freeman told me he is working on a
>>companion "English-Haitian" volume.



Albert Valdman
Rudy Professor of French & Italian and Linguistics
Indiana University
1020 E. Kirkwood Ave.
Ballantine Hall 604
Bloomington, IN 47401-7103

tel.(812)855-4988
fax (812)855-2386