a1084: RE: a1062: a1006: Controlling the evangelicals (fwd) Re Joe Allen (fwd)

[Bob Corbett <corbetre@webster.edu>]

From: Joel Dreyfuss <jdreyfuss@attglobal.net>

I suggested those rules because U.S. laws about religious freedom don't
apply to Haiti. I know they would never pass Constitutional muster in
the U.S.

But how do you protect poor, illiterate and hungry people from coercive
conversion? How do protect a cultural heritage that is constantly
denigrated by people who have no understanding of it and in fact, cast
it as evil even as they offer food and shelter? Haiti has always had
special relationship with religion. The Concordat of 1860 gave the
Catholic Church special status; one of the greatest experiences I ever
had as a Haitian was to listen to a houngan run through a detailed
history of Haitian presidents, citing their official position on vaudou
(mostly against) and their actual practice (from ardent practioners to
indifferent Catholics). Haiti could do worse than offer some protection
to Vaudou, especially in this fragile period in its history.

Joel Dreyfuss
jdreyfuss@attglobal.net
212-932-1448

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-haiti@lists.webster.edu
[mailto:owner-haiti@lists.webster.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Corbett
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 1:38 PM
To: Haiti mailing list
Subject: a1062: a1006: Controlling the evangelicals (fwd)



From: Joe Allen <jaallen1@bellsouth.net>


RE: a1006: Controlling the evangelicals

    I have followed the discussions on the attempts made by the
evangelicals in Haiti to discredit Vaudou and win converts.  I am only
interested in the subject  from a freedom of speech and freedom of
association issue, not in the merits or faults of a particular religion.
The constitution of Haiti guarantees the right of citizens to associate
freely  and I do agree that laws are needed to strengthen that
commitment of religious freedom.
    The intentions behind Joel Drefuss' posting may be noble, but some
of his recommendations, if followed, not only will give Vaudou a special
status it may not need,  they represent a state micromanagement of the
issue.

    J. Dreyfuss:" I would create a law that no religious group make
conversion a requirement for receiving any form of social service: food,
service, health, education or vocational training."
   If associations and religious groups do not receive state funding,
they have the right to decide the conditions under which someone will be
admitted to or receive help from the organization.  In the United States
you could not pass such a law.  Every day organizations discriminate
legally in this country.  However, refusing to assist a person in danger
using the same criteria is a crime.
    J. Dreyfuss:" Any conversion to another religion would require an
affidavit of free will witnessed by someone not associated with the
cult."
    Imagine:  You just created a new ministry or increased the staff of
an existing ministry, and in the process you inconvenienced the people
who wanted to convert.  You also created an expense in addition to
wasting  their time.  They will need a "recepisse" from " Le Bureau des
Contributions" and a public notary to validate the document.  Since
decentralization is not yet a reality, the poor soul that finally
realized that Protestantism was not for him after all will have to go to
the nearest city get his papers in order to convert to Vaudou.  I assume
that you also want to use the Archives Nationales to store the
information and will issue an official  " certificate of conversion".
    J. Dreyfuss:" Any harassment or denigration of vaudun practitioners
would be a violation of freedom of religion..."
    I agree that harassment is an offense, but denigration may be a
matter of free speech.  Anyone should be free to express their opinions
about any religion, whether we like it or find it unpalatable.

    I think it is time in Haiti for the majority of Vaudou practitioners
to behave like they are a majority religion in the land.  It is time
that highly visible people in Haiti,  who happen to be Vaudou
practitioners, support their religion openly and give it the boost it
needs to fight
stereotypes of all sorts.   The solution is not micromanagement.
   Joseph A. Allen DDS
    Miami, FL