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7964: Re: 7954: Re: 7878: Racine's version of Vodou-Dorce comments (fwd)

From: Racine125@aol.com

<< Is there such thing as an Italian Roman Catholic potato farmer?  No 
matter, I get your slur. >>

Kathy, you need to calm down your emotional response, that is not a slur, it 
is a metaphoric comparison to an uninitiated Haitian Vodouisant working as 
something other than a clergy person.

<< My husband is not uttering anything nor is he pretending to speak for the 
Haitian Vodou religion as you are.>>

What?  You come on this forum and you say, "my husband says this, my husband 
says that..."  So if he is not speaking for the Haitian Vodou religion, I 
guess it must be you who is speaking for the Haitian Vodou religion, right?

And YES, Kathy, YES, I do speak for the Vodou religion as a clergy person of 
that religion, just as a Baptist bishop can speak for the Baptist church.  I 
am not the only Mambo in the world, or the biggest Mambo or the best Mambo, 
but I am an authentic Mambo asogwe with over a decade of experience and the 
support of the Vodouisant community in my part of Haiti, a functioning 
peristyle, and an international society which includes Haitians, Americans, 
British, and people of other nationalities, white people, black, Hispanic, 
gay, straight, etc.

<< The tradition in Haiti is to pass on the lwa from generation to 
generation.  That is the way.  He doesn't post his authority on any newsgroup 
or listserv, nor does he proselytize or advise anyone for money.>>

He is not competent to do so!  A Houngan or Mambo in Haiti who is going to do 
a kanzo announces this through whatever means are available in his or her 
community - they might stand up at the beginning of a dance and say, "My 
friends, you know, we will be having a kanzo next month...", they might tell 
other Houngans and Mambos that they will be wanting assistance and to send 
any candidates that might be interested their way (although this is less 
fruitful because Houngans and Mambos compete for initiates), they might sing 
a song in a Rara procession about the upcoming "journey to the source" they 
will be making, and so on.

In the USA of course people use telephones and other means of communication.  
Since my community is in part an online community I use the Internet.  And I 
repeat that the Houngans and Mambos I work with in Haiti think this is a 
fabulous idea, and clamor for me to make web pages for them and help them to 
find and maintain an international clientele!  I have in fact done so for two 
of them:

http://www.geocities.com/kanamayen/houngan.html - The first page on the Web 
written in French by a Haitian Houngan, Yves Jean-Louis, Bon Houngan Salbadja 
Menfo, is an associate of the Roots Without End Society, and serves in the 
role of "papa kanzo" when we conduct initiation ceremonies. 

http://members.aol.com/HealingMagicMan/healing.html - The personal page of a 
Haitian "kwakwa man", an uninitiated traditional practitioner and a powerful 
magician with very definite ideas on health and happiness.  This individual, 
by the way, will become an initiate of the Roots Without End Society in July, 
along with his uncle (another kwakwa man) his uncle's wife, and their 

Furthermore, and I have told you this before, ALL Houngans and Mambos are 
paid for our work.  I suggest that interested parties see the following URL:

http://members.aol.com/racine125/money.html - Money and Vodou

This page details the economy of Houngans and Mambos, describes when we are 
paid and when we are expected to spend or give away money.

<<He expresses great happiness, comfort and fulfillment from his belief in 
Vodou. >>

Wonderful!  Why not?

<< I don't disrespect all Oungans and Manbos, most of them practice what they 
 know quietly and with respect for others.>>

So as long as we keep quiet we are okay?  But when we talk publicly about our 
work it's okay to disrepect us?

I am very proud of this tradition, I am proud of my role in this tradition, 
and I am proud to provide accurate and authentic information to the world 
online community!  Do you have any idea how many people are scammed every day 
by charlatans who perform inauthentic ceremonies for outrageous prices, and 
attempt sexual improprieties in the bargain?  I wish someone had made 
available to me the information that is now available on my page and on the 
web pages of other Houngans and Mambos, it would have saved me a lot of time, 
trouble and expense.

<< You will no doubt be thrilled to know that the Artist doesn't believe in 
live sacrifice either...;).  There are many ways to serve the lwa....;)  He 
does offer food and drink, of course, but no killing in a ceremonial way.  >>

That is his privilege, but it is incongruous with the Haitian Vodou 
tradition, in which animal sacrifice is practiced. 

You go on to write that you make your assertions "based on my readings about 
Vodou (I started studying in 1980.  The first book  I read was Maya Deren's 
The Divine Horsemen), my observations and conversations with Haitians ">>

That is like making authoritative assertions about evangelical Christianity 
because you read a book by Billy Graham and talked with a few evangelical 
Christians you met at a Billy Graham crusade!  Look, if you have respect for 
this tradition then you need to have respect for it's rules, it's principles, 
and it's clergy.

Peace and love,

Bon Mambo Racine Sans Bout Sa Te La Daginen

"Se bon ki ra" - Good is rare
     Haitian Proverb

The VODOU Page - http://members.aol.com/racine125/index.html