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9739: Slavery - USA - Democracy - Haiti (Saint-Vil replies to Heiln and anonymous) fwd (fwd)

From: Jean Saint-Vil <jafrikayiti@hotmail.com>


To my observation that White Supremacy as it was practiced in the U.S. (at 
least up to 1860 - involving Institutionalised Racial Slavery) cannot and 
should not be equated with Democracy, M. Heiln responded that « Even the 
Athenians, considered to be the originators of Democracy, owned slaves and 
restricted suffrage». He further specified that, in his opinion, «Haiti 
should be considered the newest (if it can be considered such at the moment) 
democracy in the Western Hemisphere, not the oldest.».

Indeed, it is a well known point of view in the eurocentric school of 
thought that Greece is the crucible of civilization (including democracy). 
In that school it is also believed that Judeo-Christianity invented 
monotheism, that the history of the Americas begins with the arrival of 
Columbus, that the United States is the oldest democracy of the American 
continent, that Dessalines was a terrorist and Thomas Jefferson a hero. 
However, Mr. Heinl, the world is much larger than this eurocentric 
selectively amnesic school. Much larger! There are over 6 billion people on 
this beautiful little planet. Some of us have other perspectives based on 
our own socio-cultural paradigms.

For some of us, the KMTic kingdoms of Pharaoh Narmer or of Queen Tiye 
deserve as much if not more credit for several advanced human civilisations 
(including Western and MesoAmerican civilisations) than does Greek 
civilisation... Pharaoh Akenaton is recognised to be monotheist way before 
the invention of either judaism or christianity; and, Dessalines is 
recognised for the freedom fighter and ultimate liberator that he truly was 

The point is. You and I are not looking at history with the same set of eyes 
nor from the same stand point. You are a benefactor of the  White 
Supremacist system. I am a benefactor of Dessalines freedom struggle. We are 
in two different comic strips. Your heroes are zeroes  in my book and, 
understandably, mine do not impress you much.

Someone requiring anonymity mischievously suggested on this list that, if 
pre-1860 United States murdered the Africans it enlaved, like Dessalines 
killed most of the french in 1804, perhaps I would be more inclined to 
consider pre-1860 United States a Democracy.

This anonymous poster should know that, indeed, the U.S DID murder MILLIONS 
of Africans. Those who were still in bondage in 1860 were escapees of the 
great tribulation. In fact, this barbaric and unprecedented ethnocide is 
precisely what the french, the british, the spaniards, the dutch were 
partaking to all over the continent. And, that is exactly what Makandal, 
Kebinda, Boukman, Toussaint, Dessalines, Sanit Bélair....(and countless 
others in Brazil, in the U.S., in Jamaica etc...) rose against and defeated, 
in Ayiti, in 1803. And, even 200 years after all this, what lesson have the 
tormentors of the African people learned? How are they dealing with Haiti?, 
with Jamaica? with Souh Africa? with the Congo? Have White Supremacy been 
replaced by Democracy or has it simply mutated into a more sophisticated 
murder machine. Why is it the European Union and the U.S. continue to 
destabilise every government lead by a black leader chosen by his people 
(Aristide, Thabo M'beki, Maurice Bishop, Patrice Lumumba, Thomas Sankarra) 
while they gang up to arm and finance and protect our Mobutus?

Sir, if in the aftermath of a truly JUST war (if there ever have been one!!) 
5000 french human beings died in Haiti at the hands of Dessalines, let it be 
remembered that it is after several millions of Africans had been «LEGALLY» 
slaughtered (placed in holes and covered with molasse, dismembered, eaten by 
Rochambeau's dogs, raped, milked, stabbed to death, thrown to the sharks of 
the middle passage...). And, if you can for a moment (try, in your dream) to 
put yourself in Dessalines' shoes, you would realise that he was at war 
against the worst enemies his people could have ever imagined and so he 
fought them with 1/10 of the barbarism they had shown towards him and his 
people. There was no «Black Supremacy System» instituted in Haiti. It was 
instead a Black Humanity System. Must I remind you also that Toussaint 
L'Ouverture had tried to civilise the whites in Haiti and, instead the chose 
to betray him and cowardly captured him - sending him to die starved in a 
cold european prison. Even so, Dessalines went as far as sparing the live of 
the lowly coward named Rochambeau (the one who came with the Cuba-trained 
African eating dogs), when he had the opportunity to rid the planet of this 
monster. Yet, this same Rochambeau boasted that he would beat Dessalines to 
death were he to fall into his hands. Who is the monster in this film? No 
wonder Hollywood is not interested!!!!

Racial Slavery in the U.S. was institutionalised. It was a collective 
«state» decision that Africans were to be systematically brutalised and kept 
down while they were making the U.S. prosper. There is no comparison to be 
made between such a collective - institutionalised barbarism and Dessalines' 
act of «infinite justice» conducted during a time of war - indeed a war for 

Having read how Mr. Heinl considers, his country's state-sponsored and 
nurtured racial slavery as a matter of little import; having many times 
before seen how quick some highly educated people are to condemn Dessalines; 
having seen how the film «Beloved» flopped at the box offices... I now 
understand why, in the year 2001 Haitians continue to be villified by many 
of those who nonetheless claim to love Haiti.

It is a worthwhile observation for Haitians to make: Many of Haiti's 
self-appointed friends love her (land) but hate her people, her history, her 


« Might does not make right !»

«Depi nan Ginen bon nèg ap ede nèg!»

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