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#2173: WHAT! TAKE AWAY THE RIGHT TO VOTE: Poincy continues

From: Jean Poincy <caineve@idt.net>

Kathy DorcÚ, I command you for reading between the lines and did not
let yourself fall in the wrong perception that automatically associates
lack of good judgment to one's literacy level. However, I do understand
those who intuitively do so. For they think no matter what, the people
ought to be given the opportunity to make crucial choice. If one does
not think so they go quick on attributing his/her reasoning to the
people's literacy level, in Ayiti's case.  

	Well indeed! This is describing human beings. This lack of good
judgment is common to all masses (which I was reluctant to say). I did
indirectly point out in previous posts by underlining the fact that the
founding fathers of United States felt the same way when laying down
principles that make the US what it is today, a leader in democratic

	They were not looking down upon the masses by pointing out their lack
of good judgment to choose an elected official to last more than two
years in public offices. They were not looking down upon people by
making the right to vote exclusive to some groups of individuals in the
new society. They were concerned rather by the good health of the
collectivity ahead. They were great visionaries.

	Senators and Presidents were not to be elected by the people through a
direct voting process like it is in Ayiti; only congressmen whom to last
only two years, with considerable power in fact, were to be elected
directly by the people. They thought that two years is not a big deal
when the wrong kinds are chosen. However, electing the wrong kinds in
legislative and executive branches for 4 to 5 years could be deadly

	They were quite correct. Not so, however, when considering exclusive
voting rules. What the US has become in less than two centuries proves
them to be correct; moral aspects can be disregarded, in fact the US
government process was far to be moral then from an individual stand
point, but from a collective one, morality was its virtue. Do we have to
talk of collective moral virtue vs. individual moral virtue in matters
pertaining to good government process? Bob may have his take on this

	I said before, mankind history is universal, what happens here can
happen there. Taking into account contextual differences, it can be
useful to look at what others did that makes them successful and try to
emulate them by adaptation. Why killing ourselves trying to devise new
formula to improve conditions while solutions are on the tips of our

	Having said all this, I come to agree with you that  "Ayitians (my
adopted orthography) have committed the unbelievable sin of being
human.  We are the same." But while we are the same, we are not alike.
Today, you can find ordinary poor Americans that value their votes, make
sure to give them to a candidate, but at a maximizing return. They do go
through a rational process, which lacks among the majority of ordinary
poor Ayitians.

	Why is it so? If the American people were imposed a mode of learning
process until maturity has been reached it is not the case for the
Ayitian people. The democratic process being implemented in Ayiti is one
that necessitates a high level of maturity that a people can acquire
only with experience. Perfection is a work in progress; it comes along
and never in one shot.

	Isn't that enough to set up new guiding rules to introduce democracy in
Ayiti. I am willing to throw the towel and let go my argument on a
strong man or strong group rule for at least a generation, provided that
one can devise new guiding rules for a new democracy in Ayiti which
would do away the people's right to vote directly, while being a fair
democratic process. No society can have a participatory democracy if
they have no strong governmental system to back it up. Ayiti has no
such, not even in inception. Until then I will keep my gloves on and
hold on to the towel. 

	Again thank you DorcÚ for your insightful comment.

Ayiti has lived, lives and will live