8942: Re: 8928: Dorce replies to Corbett on jobs (fwd)

[Bob Corbett <corbetre@webster.edu>]

From: LAKAT47@aol.com

In a message dated 08/22/2001 7:00:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
corbetre@webster.edu writes:

<< Kathy, while I can understand one attacking people making significant
 profits on the workers of Haiti, I worry that your position is excessive
 and harmful to Haitian people. >>
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Bob, I am sorry you see my posts as attacking people and not
ideas or behaviors.  If you are worried that my position is 
excessive and harmful  to Haitian people, what do you think
about these exploiters?  Their actions are excessive and 
harmful to Haitian people.  I am exhorting people to be 
decent and moral.  While I have a special disdain for Haitians
exploiting Haitians, I can hardly impose my foreign values on
them.  I DO impose my values on Americans doing business in
Haiti.  I am saying so what if that is how it's always been....
improve conditions and pay a living wage.  Pretend that all
of America is watching and knows exactly where their kids'
pajamas came from.......under what conditions they were
assembled.  I believe that Americans would not buy such 
a product if they knew people suffered to make it.  
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<<1.  One simply assumes there are alternatives, yet I hear no concrete ones
    being given that suggest a reasonable hope of coming into being.>>
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So if the situation in Haiti is bad enough, the people should
take whatever they can get, even if it means that life is
miserable and demeaning.  This supports those who would
keep Haiti in squalor so that slave labor is available.  If 
investors and business owners will not do business in Haiti
if they must improve working conditions, then Haiti needs 
to find other ways to employ the people.  Tourism is one
way I feel that the entrepreneurial spirit of Haitians can
be exercised without any expenditure at all (other than
cleaning up Haiti, which needs to be done regardless.)
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<<Often the choice for the Haitian worker and even interested bystander
(since I am often one of those) is that the REAL option faced by the
worker is this job or none.>>
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Not really Bob.  Many many Haitians make money or exist on no job
at all.  There is a cooperative, even socialistic system among poor
Haitians that has worked for years.......how else have all these people
stayed alive?  The way I have seen it work is this: people gather others
around them, neighbors or family, who share what they have when they
have it.  One time one person has money and they cook food for others;
another time another person has money and they share their food.  All
people in this group help each other when needed.  My husband made
money with his art and he taught some men to paint too.  They would 
work together and Martino would sell and split the money.  Other people
who could not paint would do other chores for money and that way, many
people (none with jobs) got by using this mutually beneficial system.  He 
has never worked for a living soul in his life.  With tourism, many people
could make money and others would benefit as well.  
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<< And in that case, no matter what I would like
or want, the worker almost always chooses the job >>I would not want the jobs 
which I have been able to create in Haiti and
wouldn't be satisfied with them. 
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I disagree here.  It's just not my experience that Haitians
will take jobs that are dehumanizing.  No job doesn't mean
starvation in many cases for reasons I have stated as well
as the fact that the diaspora is sending money at a steady rate.  
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<>
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All due respect, I find it cavalier to support inhumane conditions for
Haitians simply because they are in dire straits and have few choices.
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<>
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I can't imagine that you, Bob Corbett, would ever provide jobs that would
exploit poor Haitians for the purpose of building your personal wealth.  
Please don't think I am talking about any venture that helps Haitians
help themselves, which I am positive is your motive.  
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<>
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These are not MY ideal standards.....I advocate standards that are far below
any I would accept for myself or anyone in this country.  I believe in 
Aristide's
motto, "From misery to poverty with dignity."  I support the disgust and 
dissatisfaction of factory workers who are denied representation and
organization.  And I should think you would too.
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<<To blanketly claim that "no job is better than a miserable job" is simply
an excessive and irresponsible claim that carries the severe danger of
harming workers if others follow that mandate.>>
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First of all, I do not imagine that my posts will cause factory owners and
prospective investors to change their actions. Because things are bad,
I will not accept that things must stay bad.  I am for improvement in the 
quality of life for the peasant class in Haiti.  What would you have me do?
Nothing?  It seems as though that is what you are saying.  I respect those
people, I want those people to have an opportunity to effect their own 
futures.  
How subversive is that?  If everyone accepts this as reality and never asks 
for better, they are doomed to live this way forever.  No Bob.......it isn't 
good
enough.  I am not convinced that my ideals are harmful to Haitians.  

Kathy Dorce~