22546: Antoine: Re: 22542: Arthur: Re: All recent posts on Mambo Racine (fwd)

[Bob Corbett <corbetre@webster.edu>]

From: Guy S. Antoine <guyantoine@haitiforever.com>

The Corbett List has never been linear, in that it has
always allowed several lines of discussion to develop from
an originating post.  The issues of sexual violence as
intrinsic to Haitian culture and that of Haitian Creole
orthography are two entirely distinct issues, though both
were raised by the same person.  My participation in these
two debates has never been to discredit or ridicule anyone,
but to raise some counter-arguments in both lines of
discussion, in what I always hope would be discussed on a
logical, impersonal basis.  On the first issue, that is
"sexual violence as intrinsic to Haitian culture", I said
everything that I could possibly say as one who grew up in
Haiti, given the straight and narrow terms on which the
issue had been presented to the List.  I stated as clearly
as I know how that I believe that sexual violence is a
serious problem in Haiti, and I wish the issue could be
further debated but not along the lines that every Haitian
man is this, every Haitian woman is that, that our Haitian
culture is inferior.  Since the main protagonist of this
discussion, Kathy Grey, insisted that we had to accept those
precepts which I find untenable, I prefer to wait until such
time  the issue can be honestly debated without dumping on
the Haitian culture.  Fair enough, Charles?

As for Haitian Creole spelling, again I stuck to the rules
of HC orthography and clearly stated my system of reference.
I even mentioned other systems for comparison sake.  Sure
enough, a serious discussion of Haitian Creole orthography
will bore many to tears, as I suspect issues related to
economic development alternatives or even partisan politics
in Haiti will have the same effect on others.  But I think
that this is why there is a "Delete" key on every keyboard.
When Kathy Grey authoritatively states that there is no
"manbo" in all of Haiti, and challenges any and all
arguments that are rooted in official HC spelling, do you
expect us to roll over and accept it?  This may not be an
issue of particular interest to you, Charles, but to many of
us who wish to see Haitian Creole treated with the same
level of respect accorded to other languages, it is.

Sexual violence and HC spelling, two distinct issues which
deserve debate on their own merits.  Of course, there are
many, many other issues as well.

J. Hudicourt, for instance, questioned the relevance of the
pigmentation column on a list of Haitian presidents.  I
think that the color issue is relevant within a specific
context as that of Lyonel Paquin's book, "The Haitians -
Class and Color Politics".  Taken out of the context of a
discussion on color politics, it appears to force the issue,
and may unduly exacerbate racial sentiments, in my opinion.
Furthermore, as others have pointed out, the question of who
is light, dark, or black is quite subjective and unevenly
applied.  But another issue is: Can Corbett present the data
as an excerpt of Lyonel Paquin's book and deliberately
suppress the pigmentation column?  That is perhaps a
copyright issue, but I am not sure.

In any case, I did not intend to leave behind "the
discussion of sexual violence".  I can't speak for everyone
else, but generally I don't think that the point of those
discussions has been to ridicule or discredit Kathy either,
only to raise objections to certain positions she takes that
some find objectionable.  I thought that's what the List was
about: discussion of every issue, even esoteric ones.  As
for personal attacks, they are to be discouraged, for sure.
However, that was not the essence or intent of my
participation in those debates.

Guy S. Antoine
Windows on Haiti
http://haitiforever.com